Subject: History's Mysteries
Posted by: Cymruambyth
Date: Feb 19 09
There are many unresolved mysteries in history. For instance, who really killed the princes in the Tower (my money is on Henry VII)? What happened to the Roanoke settlers? Where exactly did Judge Crater get to? What would you like to see resolved?
Posted by: Cymruambyth
Date: Feb 19 09
There are many unresolved mysteries in history. For instance, who really killed the princes in the Tower (my money is on Henry VII)? What happened to the Roanoke settlers? Where exactly did Judge Crater get to? What would you like to see resolved?
136 replies. On page 3 of 7 pages. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
benniebenbenny
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I wish Chuck Norris would share with the rest of the world his secret of "Chuck Norris can divide by zero". LOL. But seriously, - Shakespeare. Not questions of authorship but "What did he look like"? - Aviator Amelia Earhart: Did she land on Howland Island? - Michael Rockefeller: Was he eaten by a tribe of supposed cannibals? - Is the Ivory-billed woodpecker still in existence? - What happened to the crew of the Mary Celeste? - What did Joan of Arc really look like? - The Star of Bethlehem: A conjunction of planets, a comet, or a supernova? - What did the (now destroyed except for Pyramids) Seven Wonders of the Ancient World look like? I wish they had postcards back then...LOL. Reply #41. Mar 20 09, 5:20 AM |
Cymruambyth 
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Stu, re your post #38 - The 'one person' Shakespeare premise is borne out very well by the many Warwickshire-isms in the plays. One in particular stands out and it occurs in 'Hamlet' (the play by which all other Shakespeare plays are measured). Hamlet says, "There is a divinity which shapes our ends, rough hew them as we may", which is a direct reference to the craft of building fences in Warwickshire. The hedger cuts down saplings and strips off the branches and leaves (that's called rough-hewing) and the fencer shapes the ends to a taper so that they can be more easily woven into a fence (that's called shaping the ends, oddly enough). A Warwickshire lad like Will would be fully conversant with the art of building such fences and may have built one or two himself. No Londoner would know anything about rough-hewing and shaping ends, and I'll lay dollars to doughnuts that Sir Francis Bacon, Christopher Marlowe and the other pretenders had never in their lives built a fence of any sort, and especially not a Warwickshire fence. Reply #42. Mar 20 09, 1:15 PM |
stuthehistoryguy
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True dat, mate. Mad props. Obligatory mystery: Who the deuce was Jack the Ripper? Reply #43. Mar 23 09, 7:14 AM |
| Cymruambyth
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My late husband was always intrigued by the mystery of the identity of Jack the Ripper and had several books about the age-old conundrum. The most interesting theory is one advanced by crime writer Patricia Cornwell. Her book 'Portrait of a Killer' fingers Victorian society artist Walter Sickert as Jack. She makes a very good case. Reply #44. Mar 23 09, 11:01 AM |
mjws1968
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I love Sickert's artwork, he is one of the best at capturing the ordinary people of the Victorian world, he was a little eccentric and was an important member of the Camden Town Group. I suppose Cornwell made reference to the murder of lady of the night Emily Dimmock in 1907 in Agar Grove (Camden Town). This, and the fact that in his paintings some of the pr*stitutes look like they are dead or dying made him a prime suspect, just because the murders stopped doesnt mean the Ripper died, Sickert travelled abroad a lot. It would be interesting to see if similar murders occurred in cities he visited at the times he was there, not sure anyone has ever taken the time to do so. Reply #45. Mar 23 09, 11:26 AM |
paco18
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"- Aviator Amelia Earhart: Did she land on Howland Island?" Benny I can answer this one for you. Not a chance she may have crashed there but not a landing. I'm told she crashed every plane she ever flew. Reply #46. Mar 23 09, 8:43 PM |
| mjws1968
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Can I just put in a request asking for no tasteless jokes about women drivers at this point, the statistics disprove that piece of chauvinism anyway lol. Reply #47. Mar 24 09, 9:13 AM |
| Cymruambyth
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paco, that was a snide piece of chauvinistic drivel! Reply #48. Mar 24 09, 9:34 AM |
collect
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The Sanders portrait of Shakespeare has been pretty thoroughly vetted -- it dates from about 1600, and provenance within a single family is pretty convincing. Dave Reply #49. Mar 24 09, 10:10 AM |
| benniebenbenny
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Re: Shakespeare's face. Recently, a very persuasive case has been made for the "Cobbe Portrait". For me, it looks too neat and stylized for a reality painting. The "Chandos Portrait" remains a more convincing possibility. The Sanders (Canada) Portrait was tentatively shown to be a portrait commisioned in the 1600's. However, labels and other inscriptions associated with it were found to have been made in or after the 1800's. Thanks, Benny. Reply #50. Mar 24 09, 11:57 AM |
daver852
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Have to put in a vote for Marlowe as the author of "Shakespeare's" plays. There is not even any evidence that the actor Shakespeare was even literate; his supposed six remaining signatures are written by at least four different hands; his daughters were both illiterate; his will mentions not a single book, nor the rights to any unpublished plays. Like many others who have studied the subject, I've come to the conclusion that Marlowe's death was faked, and that he continued to supply plays for the stage, using the Stratford man as a front. There are a lot of excellent books on the subject; one of the best is A. D. Wraight's "The Story the Sonnets Tell." Reply #51. Mar 26 09, 4:44 PM |
| Cymruambyth
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daver, I sometimes question the snobbery of those who make the assumption that a man from a small town could not possibly have written the plays and poems we know as Shakespeare's. There are three main contenders - Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford, Christopher Marlowe and Sir Francis Bacon. Of the three, only Bacon outlived Shakespeare. Marlowe died in 1593, a few days before he was to be tried for heresy, and despite Ms Wraight's and the Marlovian Society's contention that the death was faked, there's a contemporary coroner's report which is pretty conclusive. Edward de Vere died in 1604. Bacon outlived Shakespeare by 10 years, dying in 1626. Have you ever read Marlowe ir Bacon? Their works bear no resemblance to Shakespeare's style. Moreover, their works do not contain Warwickshire references, as do Shakespeare's plays and poetry. As for Shakespeare's daughters being illiterate, that proves nothing - the majority of ordinary women in the 16th century were illiterate! Reply #52. Mar 26 09, 9:04 PM |
| Cymruambyth
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Oops, forgot to mention that those interested in Shakespeare might want to read A.L. Rowse's books about the bard. Rowse was a British historian and Oxford Don and a leading Shakespearian scholar. Reply #53. Mar 26 09, 9:07 PM |
| daver852
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Have you ever read Marlowe? He sounds a lot like Shakespeare! So much like Shakespeare, in fact, that an analysis of sentence structure, vocabulary, etc., can and is used to support Marlowe's authorship. The fact that there are a few words and phrases in the plays that are found in Warwickshire dialect is not a very convincing agrgument for the Stratford man. There are as many, if not more, that derive from Kentish. One author has used this line of reasoning to "prove" Shakespeare was Irish: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/79358 As I said, there is strong evidence that Shakespeare, the actor, may have been illiterate - like his father, his mother and his children. http://home.att.net/~tleary/sigs.htm It just doesn't add up. It is also very strange that "Shakespeare" did not publish anything - not a play, not a poem, not a laundry list - until after Marlowe's supposed death. Reply #54. Mar 26 09, 9:59 PM |
| Cymruambyth
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daver, it would seem that Shakespeare's contemporaries, particularly Ben Jonson, had no doubts about him. The theory that either Marlowe or Bacon had written the plays and poems wasn't espoused until the eighteenth century! And, yes, I've read Marlowe - and Bacon and all the Elizabethan dramatists and poets. That was my area of study at university as an English Lit. major. Reply #55. Mar 26 09, 10:18 PM |
| daver852
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Oh, well, there just isn't room here to have a meaningful debate. I will say, however, that no one who has studied the life of Shakespeare could possibly believe he is the author of the plays and sonnets that bear his name. As far as his daughters being illiterate: you are asking me to believe that the greatest author who ever lived, an author who, in his works, celebrated educated women, created female characters who could not only read and write, but who were scholars, would allow his own children to to grow up to be ignorant and unlettered. Quite a stretch. Perhaps this interview with Marlovian expert John Baker can make the case better than I can: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWnRQbwvfKY Reply #56. Mar 26 09, 10:42 PM |
tnrees
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I thought there were records of Shakespear attending the local grammar school & that his father holds the record in the guiness book of records for the most different spellings of his name. Reply #57. Mar 27 09, 6:36 AM |
| daver852
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There are no records of the man Shakespeare having attended any school. Not one scrap, one jot, one tittle of handwriting that can positively be ascribed to him survives. What little we do know about the Stratford man comes mostly from court records; he was a miserly userer who was constantly suing his neighbors for trifling sums, ofter just a few shillings. His father, who was a glove maker, signed with a mark. The reason there are so many variations in the spelling of the name is most likely the Stratford man didn't know how to spell it himself; each law clerk gave his own rendering of it. Reply #58. Mar 27 09, 6:55 AM |
trojan11
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Whilst it is true that his father, John Shakespeare, was trained as a glove maker and tanner, and could not write, both John Shakespeare and his wife were well thought of in polite Stratford society at the time. John Shakespeare was elected to various official positions and in 1565 he was elected Alderman, a post that carried with it the perk of a free education at the local grammar school for his children. It is highly unlikely that William did not attend this school. Not to do so would have been seen as very strange behaviour indeed. The reason that there is no record of his attendance is because there are no surviving records of any student attending that particular school at that time. Reply #59. Mar 27 09, 8:01 AM |
| tnrees
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There is not record of many people in the past having attended school or writing. Reply #60. Mar 27 09, 11:18 AM |
136 replies. On page 3 of 7 pages. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
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