Subject: Military commanders of merit.
Posted by: trojan11
Date: Jul 19 10
This is not a thread dedicated to the famous commanders of history. We all know of Napoleon, Alexander, Saladin, Rommel, Patton and so on. However, throughout history there have been many military commanders of note, but who have never really come into the public eye.
Does anyone have regard for an unsung hero of the past. The kind of commander that did well, sometimes brilliantly, but never reached the public's attention?
One of favourites is Gotthard Heinrici (generaloberst) of WW2. He was the man tasked by Hitler to prevent the Soviets from crossing the Oder. Heinrici's efforts to defend Berlin border upon near genius, I think. He also quite successfully defied Hitler and his cronies.
Posted by: trojan11
Date: Jul 19 10
This is not a thread dedicated to the famous commanders of history. We all know of Napoleon, Alexander, Saladin, Rommel, Patton and so on. However, throughout history there have been many military commanders of note, but who have never really come into the public eye.
Does anyone have regard for an unsung hero of the past. The kind of commander that did well, sometimes brilliantly, but never reached the public's attention?
One of favourites is Gotthard Heinrici (generaloberst) of WW2. He was the man tasked by Hitler to prevent the Soviets from crossing the Oder. Heinrici's efforts to defend Berlin border upon near genius, I think. He also quite successfully defied Hitler and his cronies.
91 replies. On page 1 of 5 pages. 1 2 3 4 5
boxjaw 
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Field Marshal Albert Kesselring. (I'm waiting for some kind of juvenile effort designed to provoke a reaction)... Reply #1. Jul 19 10, 11:44 PM |
| boxjaw
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Something else that Heinrici should be remembered for is his noncompliance of a scorched earth policy, instituted by Hitler. Very late in the war (and earlier) such a policy was to say the least, ludicrous. Foresight is a good thing. No? Reply #2. Jul 23 10, 10:52 PM |
| boxjaw
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Now, say something nice about Kesselring. Reply #3. Jul 23 10, 10:53 PM |
houston1127
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Kesselring was pretty competent. Like the rest of Germany's generals, he had to do his best despite Hitler's seeming determination to screw everything up. My vote for unheralded general is Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck. This guy and his German/African troops were never defeated in battle and fought the Allies across East Africa during WWI. I have a soft spot for the underdog. Lettow-Vorbeck--always outnumbered and under-supplied--managed to inflict defeat after defeat on Allied forces. He was also an honorable soldier who treated his native troops with the same respect he showed his German ones. Reply #4. Jul 24 10, 12:35 AM |
trojan11
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Very interesting and informative, Houston. Thankyou. I had not heard of von Lettow-Vorbeck before your post. Reply #5. Jul 24 10, 7:50 AM |
Arpeggionist
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I never know quite what to say about some of these military leaders. Rommel, Lee, Hafez Assad - all were military geniuses who hapened to share the disadvantage of being on the wrong side. Me, I think David El'azar should have gotten a lot more credit in Israeli history books than he usually is. He was a war hero in 1967 and rose through the ranks. By the time war was about to strike again in 1973, he was the only one in the Israeli high command who was able to predict it. He tried warning Golda Meir and Moshe Dayan that he thought something was going wrong in Egypt, but they didn't listen. The result was one of Israel's worst military disasters, the Yom Kippur war. Had David El'azar managed to get his point across, the reserved forces would have been called up earlier, the war would have niether lasted nearly as long nor claimed quite as many lives as it did. Reply #6. Jul 25 10, 3:43 AM |
| houston1127
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Arpeggionist-- I know what you mean about having mixed feelings extolling the military virtues of men who serve(d) brutal regimes or misguided causes. I guess it's best to just remember that war is a horrible thing and the State can be an evil force. Plus, there are few wars where murder, rape, plunder, sacking of cities, taking of slaves, etc did not occur. In the case of WW2 and generals like Rommel, I keep in mind that, for all the Nazi horrors and crimes, the Imperial British and the Soviets were not saints, either. Reply #7. Jul 25 10, 1:30 PM |
| trojan11
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That is very true. Getting away from more modern warfare for a moment. The American Civil War. General Robert E. Lee, called by many a genius. If that is so, what happened at Gettysburg? His mistakes were of the most basic kind. As cavalry commanders go, I would nominate Nathan Bedford Forrest. Surely once of the greatest commanders of the civil war, and possibly, to my mind, one the all time 'great' natural commanders. Reply #8. Jul 25 10, 1:48 PM |
C30
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trojan11..........hindsight is easy, is is less easy in the heat of battle. If someone is classified "genius", that dosn't mean he is infallible and unable to make mistakes. Lee managed to make less mistakes than most of his peers...and what he achieved, considering his foes held all the advantages of numbers in every battle, was little short of "genius" status. I would agree though with your assessment of Nathan Bedford Forrest, one of the great "wotifs" is how he would have fared with greater responsibilities. However, not every brilliant Brigade & Divisional commanders, made brilliant leaders when upped a level (ie...General John Bell Hood). Reply #9. Jul 26 10, 2:24 AM |
| trojan11
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Unfortunately, C30, hindsight is all that we have. Whilst in no way wishing to denigrate Lee's brilliant achviements, Gettysburg stands out because of a series of blunders. Lee's refusal to listen to the sound advice of his subordinates. Pickett's Charge (over open ground with obstacles), for instance. His inability over that period to fully motivate and control the actions of some of his subordinate commanders. Basically, however, my question was meant as a query, not a judgement. Fully agree with you with regard to J.B. Hood. Poor fellow was totally out of his depth at army command level. Reply #10. Jul 26 10, 7:35 AM |
evil44
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Colonel Joshua Chamberlain and his bayonet charge from Little Round Top at Gettysburg General Anthony "Nuts" McAuliffe for holding out at Bastogne in the Battle of the Bulge General Charles Horner, commander of Allied Air Forces during Operation DESERT STORM Generalfeldmarschall Friedrich Paulus for having the courage to go against Hitler and surrendering at Stalingrad (the only German Field Marshal to ever surrender) to save the lives of his troops, then speaking out against the Nazi regime while in Russia Reply #11. Jan 13 11, 3:45 PM |
daver852
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Tom Barry, Commandant of the Third West Cork Brigade in the Irish War of Independence. Totally outfought the British, who outnumbered him ten to one. Took one the best the Brits had to offer, and utterly humiliated them. Reply #12. Jan 16 11, 9:07 PM |
trojan11
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Plaudits should go to Vietnam's Vo Nguyen Giap, the man responsible for North Vietnam's military and political stratgey from start to finish. Despite being outnumbered, totally out gunned and with nothing even approaching the rescources of the USA, Giap oversaw the total humiliation of US armed forces, mentally and physically administering a sound thrashing, before sending them scurrying home in utter defeat. Reply #13. Jan 18 11, 1:59 PM |
s-m-w
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Major General James Wolfe, The Battle of Quebec 1759 Apart from getting killed he did a good job Reply #14. Jan 18 11, 4:21 PM |
| great2beme
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Maybe Tecumseh during the Battle of 1812. Reply #15. Jan 18 11, 5:14 PM |
| evil44
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Giap's stratgey was very good. He basically ignored political boundaries (something the US politicians were not willing to do) and he catered to the US media, knowing that that was the way to get the US out...turn the US homefront against their own soldiers. That was a lesson he learned from studying WWII. The US war machine was only as strong as the US media would let them be (which is still the case). Reply #16. Jan 24 11, 11:49 AM |
| boxjaw
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If the war in Vietnam had a clear purpose and goal, the media wouldn't have had a leg to stand on. Don't blame the media for bad national policy. It's a little more complex than that. Giap knew that the limits the US placed on it's own strategy would be the key to victory. One year at a time commitments to the theater by US soldiers and marines while the NVA and Vietcong were there for the duration also played an important role. Another important reason was the soldiers under Giap had a distinct want and will to win. Kind of like Washington and his soldiers did a couple of hundred years ago. Reply #17. Jan 24 11, 11:36 PM |
houston1127
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"...turn the US homefront against their own soldiers" From what I understand the Vietnam war was unpopular at home from the get-go. What better way to show support for soldiers than to get them the heck out of a war nobody wants to fight? Reply #18. Jan 25 11, 2:57 AM |
| boxjaw
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Amen fellow patriot. Amen. Reply #19. Jan 25 11, 4:20 AM |
| REDVIKING57
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Houston,shame that lesson still hasn't been learned - either by the US or UK. Reply #20. Jan 25 11, 9:47 AM |
91 replies. On page 1 of 5 pages. 1 2 3 4 5
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