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I know what 'von' and 'van' are about, but there's 'zu' and 'von und zu' as well. Why?

Question #112451. Asked by Baloo55th.

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Trooper2196 star
Answer has 3 votes
Trooper2196 star
20 year member
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Answer has 3 votes.
Germany and Austria
See also: German nobility, von, and Austrian nobility

In Germany and Austria, von or zu generally precedes the surname of a noble family, with a meaning identical to de in Spanish or French (in, for example, the names of Alexander von Humboldt and Gottfried Heinrich Graf zu Pappenheim).

As in Spain and France, not all noble families use a nobiliary particle. The most ancient nobility, the Uradel, are especially apt to omit its use

link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility_particle

Jan 28 2010, 4:23 PM
Arpeggionist star
Answer has 2 votes
Arpeggionist star
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2173 replies

Answer has 2 votes.
The word means "to" or "upon". So a name like "Viktor von Müller zu Aichholz" (a 19th-century figure) would translate as "Victor of Miller upon Aichholz" - the English equivalent is less common, but it would be like referring to Shakespeare in full as the Bard "of Stratford upon Avon".

Jan 28 2010, 8:31 PM
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Baloo55th star
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Baloo55th star
22 year member
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Answer has 2 votes.
But what about ones like Ernst zu Munster? Or Friedrich von und zu Gloggnitz? (OK, I made the last one up - but not Gloggnitz - as an example of a type.)

Jan 29 2010, 3:37 PM
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Baloo55th star
Answer has 4 votes
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Baloo55th star
22 year member
4545 replies avatar

Answer has 4 votes.

Currently voted the best answer.
Found it. Von = of - where they came from. Zu = at - where they are. Von und zu = they came from there and they've still got it (rather less common...). So the fictional Friedrich von und zu Gloggnitz would be from a family enobled when they were in possession of a main estate in Gloggnitz - and which they still own. This is the theory - some probably just keep the particle as there's no official standing for nobility in Germany any more. link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nobility

Apr 17 2010, 1:03 PM
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