Subject: Jimmy Saville
Posted by: TheRambler
Date: Oct 04 12
He always gave me the creeps but I was deeply shocked with the latest news. His colleagues knew but his endless charity work covered up his love of little girls. I hope that when the truth is out, his knighthood is posthumously stripped of him.
Posted by: TheRambler
Date: Oct 04 12
He always gave me the creeps but I was deeply shocked with the latest news. His colleagues knew but his endless charity work covered up his love of little girls. I hope that when the truth is out, his knighthood is posthumously stripped of him.
54 replies. On page 2 of 3 pages. 1 2 3
Greatguggly
|
In that case he's not like Sandusky at all. Sandusky was basically an unknown to anyone other than die-hard college football or Penn State fans/students until the accusations surfaced in the news. Plus, I must not have read the thread very carefully because I didn't realize Saville was dead. Reply #21. Oct 11 12, 7:47 AM |
| Greatguggly
|
I don't want to defend a pedophile, if that's what he was, but I certainly can understand what Lesley's saying about girls "dressing to the nines". Back to my Florida days, in one particular bar especially, where we used to play, underage girls were all over the place and you absolutely could not tell they weren't 21. Many of them had the best fake IDs one could get, and they dressed to the tens! They also were very flirtatious and one could be and often was easily fooled. The bar actually got shut down for a time for "allowing" underage girls inside. Some of these "ladies" were serious criminals too, well at least one of them was. About a year after I moved back to Virginia, the bar burned and the girl arrested for arson was 17 years old. Turns out she'd been a regular there for a while and was angry that, with the bar's new stringent door checks, she couldn't get inside. I knew her and knew she was a little wacky but I never imagined she was that out of it. Reply #22. Oct 11 12, 8:37 AM |
supersal1 
|
From the stories abounding, it seems that Jimmy Saville had a liking for young girls and certainly wasn't going to bother checking anyone's ID (which is not something commonly carried in this country anyway). Whether the girls dressed up to attract a celebrity or not (an if they were, it probably wasn't him they were trying to attract) the fact remains that the age of consent is because girls of 13 and 14 aren't considered capable of making an informed decision in the matter. That being said, let's remember that these allegations go back many years, to a time when attitudes were very different. Rather than calling him a paedophile he'd have been called a dirty old man. Many more people would have shared the view that the girls were knowing young hussies who had led a decent man astray. As to the parents allowing their children to be visiting TV studios and the like, again, times were different. I went to see T Rex at Wembley with some friends and we couldn't have been more than 14 and that certainly wasn't unusual. And if a teenager came in in a strop and stormed off to their room, you don't automatically assume they've been molested. They probably did feel guilty - the mores and morals of the time were those where any woman who was sexually assaulted and lived to tell the tale must have been asking for it. Anyone heard the charmless saying "A woman with her skirt up runs faster than a man with his trousers down"? That's the sort of mentality that was prevalent at the time. Reply #23. Oct 11 12, 9:12 AM |
lesley153
|
Glad Rick knows about young girls who dress like adults. I've heard that charmless saying, Sally! and it's usually followed by raucous, smug male laughter. The attitude of judges, who were in those days usually mature gentlemen covered with cobwebs, was indeed that a girl who was raped must have been scantily and provocatively dressed, and who can blame a red-blooded young man... They didn't seem to register that men of all ages raped women of all ages. Remember the breakthrough research, of discussions with convicted rapists, that showed that rape is not generally about sex and very often about control? Not sure how that fits with JS - but the tempora and the mores were very different. There were Nice Girls and Fast Girls. The Fast Girls were expected to end up Pushing a Pram, which was clearly a fate worse than death, and the Nice Girls were the ones you took home to meet your parents. Reply #24. Oct 11 12, 10:41 AM |
TheRambler
|
Young girls and boys were an easy target for him, they all thought that he was this zany man off the telly who did Top of the Pops and Jim'll fix it but behind his eyes he was really a sexual predator who took what he wanted, without any remorse. His "charity work" for me, doesn't make up for what he did to these young kids and he wasn't interested in the ones who might look 21, it was the younger the better. The woman on the news this evening, who when she was 13 and paralysed and sitting in a wheelchair in the corridor of the hospital and he came by, thought she was going to get a peck on the cheek but he rammed his tongue down her throat and then walked away as though it was his due. I think he must have been quite sick in his head or he had a God complex. He probably thought that he would go to heaven for all his "good work" but I hope he never made it. There are now 4 celebrities who are in the mix but can't be named and as much as they were the swinging sixties and love the one you're with seventies, that was adults, not children. Reply #25. Oct 11 12, 2:03 PM |
daver852
|
Lots of perverts out there. One that comes to mind is Peter Yarrow of Peter, Paul, and Mary. In 1970, he was convicted of having sex with a 14 year-old girl, and has never expressed any real remorse for it. His "explanation" was "it was common practice, unfortunately, the whole groupie thing." He only spent three months in jail, and was actually pardoned by President Carter! He still spends a lot of time working with kids. He gives me the creeps. Reply #26. Oct 11 12, 3:03 PM |
| supersal1
|
Does anyone think this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn0ZJHVH17I rather excellent song would be released as a mainstream pop record now, and get to No. 1 in the charts? The lyrics are really beyond reproach, he's just found out how young she is and is sending her packing before they 'go too far'. However, to many people who missed it first time round it now sounds like a paedophiles dream. Incidentally, I understand Tony Blackburn would often hand over to Dave Lee Travis with that song, dedicating it to Jimmy Saville. It's been mooted that Jimmy Saville be stripped of his knighthood. The problem with this is that the knighthood with him, so there is no title to be taken away. No problem says The Sun, we'll campaign to bring in a new law and apply it retrospectively to Jimmy Saville. I've a couple of problems with this (1) Applying laws retrospectively sets a dangerous precedent and (2) Really, the country is in chaos and confusion, surely there are better uses of parliamentary time. Still, I suppose it's just The Sun pandering to mob mentality. Now where did I put my torch and pitchford? Reply #27. Oct 11 12, 3:04 PM |
| supersal1
|
Sorry, that should read 'the knighthood died with him' Another thought - Bill Wyman married Mandy Smith when he was 55 and she was 18, having been involved with her since she was 13. This was all with the consent of her mother. There was a hullabaloo at the time, but no angry mobs and I don't believe any prosecution took place. Reply #28. Oct 11 12, 3:08 PM |
| lesley153
|
How could anyone see that song as a paedophile anthem? It sounds to me like a man who's a little peeved to learn that he has been fooled, and is now singing "Get thee behind me, jailbait!" The Sun should be ashamed of itself, calling for retrospective legislation. We don't do that here. Sally, they're where you left them - next to my tar-melter and bag of feathers. Reply #29. Oct 11 12, 4:11 PM |
| daver852
|
Charlie Chaplin was another sicko. Reply #30. Oct 11 12, 4:57 PM |
| TheRambler
|
The Sun Newspaper always have to go a few steps further. The reports I read online were from The Telegraph & The Guardian and as far as I can see, they just print the facts. Even the BBC News have been reporting every day on the latest personality that's been named. The worst thing about it all, is having to look at his face every evening when I'm having my evening meal! Reply #31. Oct 12 12, 6:23 AM |
| TheRambler
|
Final update from me RMG. There are now 340 lines of enquiry and 40 potential victims. I think there will be thousands eventually, as he started abusing young children in 1959. To all the unbelievers and the ones that are saying "why come out now, why not say so when he was alive" they did but they were not believed and some of them were too frightened to say anything as he portrayed himself as a a goody two shoes and everybody loved him. He was so clever and devious and did so much charity work, I think that he thought he was a saint and abusing children in care homes, in the BBC's dressing rooms and hospitals were his reward. Paedophiles are all sick people but he took his power to a higher level, which I find very frightening indeed. I feel very sorry for all the kids that suffered because they have to live with it for the rest of their lives and I hope he's reminiscing with the Fallen Angel. Reply #32. Oct 12 12, 1:36 PM |
| Greatguggly
|
I agree with Lesley here on the Gary Puckett song. Horrible song to bear IMO but not for that reason. The Bill Wyman thing was creepy though. He was a bit older than the rest of the Stones and I've read that they referred to him as the "dirty old man". When Mick Jagger's calling you that you know you have a problem. Wyman freely admits he used to pick the young ones out and even kept a detailed count of his "conquests". He even tallied the other Stones' affairs and bragged about how far ahead of them he was. Keith Richards hilariously revealed in his book that he'd hear young girls going into Bill's hotel room next door or across the hall and then they'd leave after five minutes. Richards says "There wasn't enough time for anything to happen other than the girls having a cup of Bill's horrible tea...but, yep, another mark in the little black book." Reply #33. Oct 12 12, 6:55 PM |
| lesley153
|
What a wonderful story to destroy Bill Wyman's lothario image with. :) Accusations about JS are springing up in all directions. Hospital staff and patients knew everything and BBC bosses knew nothing. Trial by gutter press continues and rabble-rousing articles proliferate. Journalists who should know better are cobbling together sentences containing the words pervert, or variations, and alleged(ly). The fact that "Have I Got News For You" did it doesn't make it good journalism. Reply #34. Oct 12 12, 7:38 PM |
C30
|
Whilst, if true, the allegations make him a somewhat despicable creature, the thought does come to me that no easier "target" exists than one that cannot defend himself, Whatever he did, or did not do, he is DEAD............so all the accusations in the world are not going to harm the accused one iota! What, precisely, is this "trial by media" going to achieve him a practical sense.......I mean they can't put him on trial in a physical sense. sue him, jail him if guilty........can only sit back and say what a horrible man he was. I suppose his employers are sue-able......but don't know, not being a Solicitor. So doubtless a veritable army of legal-eagles stand to rake in a great deal of money out of all this, paid for presumably by good old taxpayer............and to what avail? Mr Saville being way out of reach of any retribution. Just IMO of course. Reply #35. Oct 13 12, 1:13 AM |
Professer
|
Am inclined to totally agree with you C30, nothing can be achieved by the press assination of a dead man, what he did or allegedly did is absolutely horrible and disgraceful. But the continued press stories and more and more coming out to say it happened to them is not really achieving anything, as he cannot go on trial or go to prison for his alleged crimes. I feel sorry for what the people who have suffered and are continuing to suffer are going through with the new stories daily. Bt as C30 stated nothing can be achieved now he is dead and buried, proably his body has already been moved from where it was buried and placed somewhere only his family no where. Reply #36. Oct 13 12, 1:55 AM |
trojan11
|
Financially, however, there is quite a lot that might be achieved. Lawyers for the allegedly abused are preparing to sue various NHS trusts and the BBC on the grounds of vicarious laibility. Reply #37. Oct 13 12, 7:15 AM |
| TheRambler
|
I disagree, I think a lot can be achieved from everyone knowing what this evil man was really all about. It's the BBC as I said before, who should be held accountable for knowing about and letting him away with what he got up to in their dressing rooms and I'm glad that they could be sued by his victims. It doesn't matter that he's dead, as far as I'm concerned good riddance. It's shocking that it was such a total man's world in broadcasting in the seventies that they thought they could treat the women who worked there as easy meat but they these women were adults, his victims were young innocent girls and boys, who were expecting just to meet him, not be indecently assaulted and worse. Then there were the sick kids in hospitals and homes who didn't have a chance of anyone believing them. They've had to keep it inside for all these years until now. They're not after money they just want everyone to know what he did to them so that they can move on, it will never go away for them though. It is getting more interesting as more celebrities are being named but nothing they did can compare to what Jimmy Savile did. Reply #38. Oct 13 12, 8:34 AM |
| lesley153
|
Aaah - that explains why BBC bosses are now saying that they heard rumours about him, asked him if there was any truth in them, and believed his dismissal of the rumours as nonsense. This is just turning into a witch hunt with excuses. I understand children being worried about speaking up because they wouldn't be believed, but I still don't understand fear. How frightened do you have to be not to say anything? Why are people claiming to be frightened of Jimmy Savile but not of Jonathan King or Gary Glitter? It doesn't take much to instigate an investigation. It only took a veiled hint about A Presenter, not even a direct name-and-shame, to destroy John Leslie's television career. Rambler: "total man's world in broadcasting in the seventies" And everywhere else and at every other time. Whenever and wherever men are physically stronger than women. I worked in an old building in the 60s - lots of wide staircases and a lift that was slower than stairs, and lots of young women to follow up the stairs. If the suited office manager pinched a female bum, the bum's owner would giggle and say "Oh you!" If flat-footed cardigan-wearing Len from the post room did it, he would be deafened with shouts of dirty old man. Not sure that's relevant but thought I'd throw it in anyway. (In case anyone's wondering: no, nobody pinched mine.) This afternoon my brother and I discussed this - very briefly - and he asked me a pretty outrageous question. "Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?" Reply #39. Oct 14 12, 3:21 PM |
demurechicky
|
Times have changed a great deal in recent years with regard to allegations of child abuse, thank goodness! There are now officers trained specifically to deal with sensitive matters of this nature. The Child Protection Units were implemented in 1989, following the Cleveland fiasco. I recall a saying from my training days, 'Sexual offences are easy to allege and difficult to prove'. With regard to a police investigation, although Jimmy Saville can't be brought to justice, it is necessary to interview the victims, as there may be allegations that others were involved. Had it not been for the ITV documentary, none of this would have come to light! Shame on the BBC for sweeping the matter under the carpet. It is a fact that several of the allegations were officially reported, none however got as far as court. I think that one got as far as the Crown Prosecution Service. It is not just a fear factor why victims do not report matters, there are many reasons, for example not being believed or feeling they were in some way responsible for the abuse, which is very, very sad. I worked in the Child protection Unit for 5 years, and the excuses given by some of the offenders beggered belief! I did on occasion deal with allegations that were proven to be false. I am sure that the investigation will be a lengthy one! It's just a shame that Jimmy Saville can't be brought to justice, or offer an explanation with regard to his alleged perverted conduct. Reply #40. Oct 14 12, 4:04 PM |
54 replies. On page 2 of 3 pages. 1 2 3
Legal / Conditions of Use
|
|
: